difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvenight clubs in grand baie, mauritius
I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. ). It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. James10952001. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. That's a lot isn't it? At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. Generally this works well for the whole system. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. This is because R134a. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. Thanks so much Bohica - you've save me many more hours of fruitless speculation. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. The car never overheats, if that has any import. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. Moreso, it had been banned. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic . You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Tech Talk - Differences between R-1234yf and R-134a - FJC Inc Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. 5. 5. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . hardly noticable. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. The difference really shows up on the high side. They have no moving parts. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. UNDERSTANDING A/C Everything You Need To Know - Classic Auto Air R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. An extra half ounce? 10,000BTU conduction heating? PDF Tecumseh Guidelines for Utilization of R134a Big . Note that passwords are case-sensitive. You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. I'll put the relay on for that. Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. They plug all the time. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. That is for the compressor, drier, expansion valve and condenser. Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. PDF Experimental analysis of Thermostatic expansion valve, Constant You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). 4) Inconsistent Airflow. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. 5. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. Very nice! R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The evap is hard to get at. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. Bookmarks: Digg; del . The crossover point is approximately at 64F. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. R134a has the chemical formula CF3CH2F and is known as tetrafluoroethane. Your old hoses of course will not fit. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. You'll want the expansion valve matched to whatever refrigerant you're using. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. #4. Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. System has been working fine for a year. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. R134a. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Answer: OK, I'll bite. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. The flammables have hydrocarbons. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. B. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. R134a requires a different oil. As per their results . in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. Thanks again. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: Chemistry The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. I've got a ball valve I'm going to put in the coolant line before the coolant goes through the firewall to the core. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. This can be very very expensive. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. A/C R12 to R134a Conversion Success | IH8MUD Forum Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? I'm not sure. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. But I don't want to waste your time. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Temp switch works the aux fan. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed.
difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve
difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve